<September> Discussion Topic: Zerg Creep

[adrian.s2a]

One of the distinct features of the Zerg is their fast movement, quick reactions and their large numbers. With the newest changes to the StarCraft II build these attributes are bound to reinforced once more.

Here are a couple of changes to the Zerg:

Zerg units except Drones can now move 30% faster on creep

Creep Tumors are smaller and burrowed

These changes will have a big impact on Zerg strategy, since covering terrain with Creep will now be very important. We will see Overlord rushes with mass spewing of creep and Zerg fast micro on creep. The burrowed Creep Tumors will force the other races to get quick detection to push back the Zerg Creep and take their fast movement.


Questions for Fans:

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?


Please structure feedback as follows:

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Were looking forward to seeing great discussions on the Zerg Creep.

[Rusty]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

I think that this increasement really enforces the zerg theme of being nourished by the creep. In theory the creep provides a perfect enviroment for the zerg, the speed bonus makes this a reality in gameplay. It also means that using the overlords to spread creep will become a much more useful and dynamic ability for the zerg.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

I think that the main effect this ability will have on the Zerg gameplay will be to encourage zerg players to spread a lot of creep. In conjunction with the burrowed creep tumours it means the zerg can really keep the creep around for a longer time than in the original and Brood War. The creep tumours won't be an attacker's primary target, the defensive structures will, so if the zerg have a lot of tumours they can keep the speed bonus on creep around for a long time.

I think that this change also means that zerg players can be even more dangerous around choke points and in setting up ambushes. Terran and Protoss players will have to be extreamly warmy of creep now because Banelings/Zerglings could pop out (Using Nydus worms?) and surround a force in moments.

Also by using the overlords ability to spread creep, a zerg player can give themselves an advantage when attacking an enemy base from the rear or a weak point.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

I really like this change! I hope Blizzard keep it in the final build. By moving faster on the creep it gives the zerg a greater sense of being a swarming hive, with units pouring out of the base in masses. It also increases the zerg dynamic and gives players a greater incentive to use creep to hem in enemies and it means that non-zerg players will have to target creep producing structures/overlords before they can move ahead.

In short I think that these changes add a lot to the Zerg gameplay wise and lore-wise. Great work Blizzard!

[GhostYoshio]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

Speed is pretty crucial for the zerg since their key strong point is massing and with few range units, the faster they can get to a target the better.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

I agree with the above post that the Overlord dropping creep behind or in an enemy base will be a good tactic.  It will be interesting to watch ZvZ battles though because with all that creep there will be so much fast movement.


Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I really like it.  It adds a great tactic for the Zerg to use and for the Terran and Protoss to defend against.  I do hope that they don't make the Creep tumors have too much life or else it will be a big advantage.  Being built underground is a great idea but they really do need to limit the life of it.  I heard it rumored before and hope that the Creep does not affect the speed of Terran/Protoss, slowing them down that is.

[Zergling]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

Giving this will make the Zerg move quicker I think with this is you could overrun enemy forces and move out fester to minerals and gas and build up your forces, then with this done arange you forces to a great brood and strike with deadly power.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

With this new speed abilty Zerg forces will be able to move in faster to the main Base and/or keep choke point under control, but with long range weapons by the Terrans, Protoss and Zerg this could be a problem.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

This change is great with this the Zerg can move out defend well with any attack the other species throw at them, but with Terran and protoss being affected by creep I think they should have a tiny amount of speed changed to them. I think it would be a great idea or lest look into by Blizz.

[Alaron]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

Now that the zerg have been given a speed bonus for creep, I realy think this leaves both terrans and protoss vulnerable to swarmage. This also could mean faster games for starcraft two.


How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

Well, the speed bonus on the creep and stuff gives the zerg more of a chance to swarm you early on in the game. This really does not give Protoss and Terran forces a big chance. It also make you rethink about building in places.


Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

I really have to go both ways on this one.

I like the idea if i was to play the zerg. It would give me a massive advantage to the protoss/ terran players.

However, this is my reason for dislike (im a terran player myself)
Being a player who normally gets beaten (yes) This nearly makes a terran and protoss player to vurtually not be able to defeat the zerg. This really concerns me a bit. If terran and protoss players have a bonus for units coming out of barracks/ warp gate then it might equal out.



QUESTION

If the zerg creep Is placed in a base of the protoss/ terran, Will the creep do additional damage just for the buildings being on it?

[Rusty]

Alaron, you've raised some interesting points there.

However, it's not like the entire map is covered in creep. Zerg players will have to know how to use and spread the creep to use it to advantage. I'm sure Blizzard will balance this ability accordingly, but I think that this just adds an extra level of depth to the Zerg, Protoss and Terran countering tactics.

If a terran player sees overlords spreading creep in his base and doesn't do anything about it, he can't really claim that he got raeped because of the speed bonus.

Also, if Terran/Protoss players let the creep get close enough to affect their buildings, it's not really as if they were put to an unfair advantage because of the ability.

Skilled players will develop tactics to remove creep, like bombing with seige tanks from afar, or removing overlords when spotted. Zerg players will develop stratergies to use the creep effectively.

I think this change has the ability to add a brilliant level of give and take to gaming. It shouldn't be changed.

[WEZ!]

I think the additonal creep mechanics are good. How they will affect different styles of games will only be found with a specific answer from Blizzard or when the game comes out.

Moving faster on creep as far as I would guess is great in large multiplayer games where there is a slower environment and creep is far more common. For smaller fewer player games the advantage is entirely controlled by the speed in which creep can be created. If its possible to create a line to an enemy base with creep colonies and overlords in a small amount of time then its a viable tactic and if it is resources balanced well then it will add another tactic to a race which I think will only enhance the game. Mechanically wise creating the creep path to an enemy base for the 30% speed boost should balance out roughly with 30% less units at initial cost where if it remains longer you have gained an advantage and if it gets destroyed early then you have lost the advantage.

Conceptually I agree with the posts so far in that is makes the Zerg much more like you would expect that race to play. To cover everything with creep and conquer anything/anyone who gets in the way. I always use to play without any creep which doesn't look as good conceptually.

I would think a possibly better solution would be to make creep around a base tough and make wide spread creep very very easy to make and very easy to kill with only a limited gain in advantage for the zerg player. say 5% speed. In fact a simple outcome for this would be creep colonies that produce rapid 'cheap' creep and aren't sunken and then more resource costing sunken colonies producing the 'good stuff'

anyway that's just be dribbling fo a bit. Apologies for not posting in the correct response method

[ALTRIX]

I think that is great and it will encourage more players to use tactic. Hopefully they keep this because i already got some good tactics i can think of with this creep.

[Tyrios]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

i think this is a great way for zerg to get a little bit more gain for the super powerful terren and strong protoss will be hard to beat and this is a good way to balance

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

it will be hard to utilize as a offensive against terren early on with overlords against marines and will need to have a ballsy player to use with the risk of depleting your "supply" . i think it is great that zerg players will have more use of the overlord

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

just creates more balance , another primary part of blizzards quest , we'll see the outcomes of this in the beta when the real world tries to utilize this zerg "benefit"

[jiranz2]

I think it is designed to give zerg more pushing power in late game, where otherwise it might be a bit week.  It will also stop terran flying in a command center close by and turning it into a fortress or other such building strategies.  It will definitely improve zerg defensive capabilities (and offensive if carefully managed) because their basic units will be able to rush in and get a few more blows in, rather than get blasted from range.

Zerg creep doing damage has been removed, which i think is good.  However, i wouldn't mind having this as host's choice option just for fun.  Or better still, be able to upgrade a creep tumor to a poisonous creep tumor at 1)the expense of creep range about the tumor or 2) for a limited time that hurts everything non-zerg including (non-high-flying) units and buildings.

Zerg creep bonus gets a thumbs up from me.

[Fenix]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I think that this will greatly change the way that you play as the zerg. I mean you will be gathering minerals alot faster than the protoss and terran. with faster mineral gathering it will swing in the zergs luck helping them dominate.
How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
like i said the zerg will dominate with more minerals.
Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
i do like the sound of this i mean it sounds qiute logical that since the zerg where created by the x'el naga and the  zerg almost created them selves

[Eskanasi]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

It will lead to increased micro abilities for the zerg and if the four pool rush becomes a viable strategy on SCII then spreading creep will make it faster, also the Zerg will change their tactics about fighting around bases with creep being put everywhere

It also means that fighting on creep will be very finicky and difficult for a non-Zerg player, as you will be swarmed, and destroyed very quickly



How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?

For the Terran this means that things like we saw in SCII battle report two (sending a drone to build a bunker and harass economy) won't work nearly as well because the Zerg will move much faster than the drone (with the exception of Zerg drones) and can swarm you faster

It raises a lot of questions about Zerg vs Zerg gameplay, as spreading creep is offering them an advantage as well and you will both move as fast on creep. This will probably allow for more early economy harassment as your zerglings will move so much faster than drones. It also means that  Zerg players will try to fight exclusively on creep when their base is being harassed, and will be very reluctant to fight out in the open.

It leaves protoss at a slight disadvantage because of their relatively expensive units and the amount of Protoss units that can attack air units (overlords spreading creep) in early game, which aren't very many, meaning that a Zealot rush probably won't work as effectively because the Zerg are moving faster and you can't kill their overlords spreading creep

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

I cannot make a decision about whether I like the change until I've had a few battles with it myself, it changes so much of the game but experienced player will use it to their advantage and other races will just try to lure them off creep.

[ravenguard10]

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I like the idea of Zerg having an advantage on creep, but really, i cant them anything being able to move faster in creep (though possibly a strengthened link to their overmind/queen could boost their speed?)... Another idea might be to slow other troops that are moving through the creep (walking 'round in a huge metal battlesuit would be hard enough without walking through hostile sludge).

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
The change is sure to bring about alot of new strategies for the zerg, with the overlord's creep spreading enabling for quick escapes, and this will severely hurt any attempts by Protoss or Terran at harrasing early game, when the workers can outrun, and roaches kite, any melee.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
Like.
30% Sounds like alot, but i trust blizzard's balancing. The idea of an advantage is good, but realistically i still can't see anything moving faster in creep...

[Eskanasi]

when the workers can outrun,

I thought that drones/zerg workers were the only ones that didn't get a speed increase on creep, I could be wrong

[Zergling]

No the Drones don't get a increase in speed I'm pretty sure of it.